Hi Guys, thanks Anon (Melbourne), Paul and Chris, sure there is heaps of wsodim and food for thought in your learned comments. But (there is always a but:-) on the very rare occasion one gets into such an unfortunate situation, and I believe that getting into such a situation in the first place was due to a lack of 'due diligence', at this point one is compelled to act. Unfortunately it may not help. Options? We can hand over all we have, beg, scream etc., etc., but many of us in this forum just cannot do that, can we?(I would love to make the other guy scream, I know shocking, such a statement from a saintly and peaceful looking guy like me:-) So what's next? I would say massively damage the leader to a state of total dysfunction and act (remember only act) berserk,while coldly, calculatingly taking out the most immediate danger with a sharp eye for knives, guns and opportunity to get to a more crowded and safer place. Nice in theory but is it practical? what choice has one got. Let's pray we don't find ourselves in such a situ. Well praying in advance has certainly worked for me. Did I hear somebody scream?